Riding Unicorns

S3E5 - Felix Ohswald, Founder @ GoStudent

January 05, 2022 Riding Unicorns Season 3 Episode 5
Riding Unicorns
S3E5 - Felix Ohswald, Founder @ GoStudent
Show Notes Transcript

Felix Oshwald is the Founder of GoStudent, a venture-backed ed-tech unicorn, which has been disrupting the tutoring space since being founded in 2016. The company as Felis is keen to stress is now on a mission to become the world's number 1 global school. 

The Riding Unicorns team sat down with Felix to better understand how this mathematics enthusiast was able to find market fit and differentiate GoStudents from its competitors, how he built a culture obsessed with operations and how he measures performance and gathers feedback. James and Hector were also able to dig a little deeper into Felix as a founder and discovered what motivates him and how he differs from others in his position. 

Make sure to like and subscribe to the Riding Unicorns podcast to never miss an episode. Also don't forget to give Riding Unicorns a follow on Twitter and LinkedIn to keep on top of the latest developments.

[00:00:00] Welcome to riding unicorns, the podcast about growth startups. I'm James Pringle, and I'm a technology entrepreneur and investor and the founder of Pringle capital. My co-host is Hector Mason from episode one ventures for season three, we are sitting down with some of the most successful founders to better understand what entrepreneurship means to them. The operational processes they have employed on their startup journey and what lessons they've learned along the way.

[00:00:36] This week's episode is with Felix Ohswald, founder of GoStudent.

[00:00:41] Go students on a mission to build the number one global school. They're an Ed tech unicorn that connects students with tutors in private one-to-one classes, but they have a whole platform to improve learning and education. GoStudent was founded in Vienna, but they're growing very [00:01:00] quickly across Europe. And they're hiring a lot in the UK as well. So let's hear about how Felix has built the company.

[00:01:07] James: Hi, Felix. Welcome to riding unicorns. We're delighted to have you here.

[00:01:15] Felix: Hi James. Thanks for having me.

[00:01:18] James: No problem at all. Great to have you. so Felix, for season three, we are interviewing founders of successful companies. we really want to understand what does being an entrepreneur mean to you?

[00:01:30] Felix: For me, it means building an obsession around the problem and solve that problem by all means. Let me give you an example. let's say you are like a child and you need extra pocket money. So you see the problem. You have no money, you need the extra money and solving that issue, finding a creative way of earning some extra money.

[00:01:50] This is for me also like a very nice example from very early on how to build up that entrepreneurial spirit and my.

[00:01:57] Hector: I was like earning a few extra, extra [00:02:00] pounds was a motivation for euros, I suppose you was the motivation from a very young age. So, what is it that really motivates you to build, a big business and to work so hard as I'm sure.

[00:02:11] Felix: So we found that go student like over six years ago, navigation company, connecting children with awesome teachers and the real motivation for building that company originated from my own child.

[00:02:24] I was quite fortunate. I had really great teachers in my life. My parents, my grandfather, who taught me everything around mathematics. I also later on studied mathematics at university and build a real passion around that. And for me, it always failed. It's one of the biggest problems in education. Finding great teachers and this lack of access to great teachers.

[00:02:47] So solving that problem and, providing that value to kids all over the world. This is, this is what drives me. This is what keeps me going on a daily basis.

[00:02:57] James: Along the way. You've probably had to [00:03:00] make thousands of important decisions that have contributed towards the success that you've had so far. What is one decision that you look back on and think I got that really right

[00:03:12] Felix: you're absolutely right. That we are many of these decisions. Just to give you one example of a decision that is related to the development of the business.

[00:03:21] model Education is very tricky when it comes to finding the right business model, because often the people using your service are not the ones paying for the service. In our case, we have the kids, the children using the live online teaching service, but the parents are paying for that. And when we started with GoStudent we actually started advertising the service, which back then was only a chat service So we advertised the chat service, helping kids ask questions via chat and then find teachers to answer them. That chat service was completely for free. And we kept going on that service. And we tried out a lot of different business models [00:04:00] over the course of like three and a half years. And then after three and a half years, we took the final decision to basically eliminate that business model at all and start shifting from the student to the parents directly.

[00:04:12] And starting also to give them a phone call. So this business decision focusing on the parents side and picking up the phone, trying to explain our service to them and understand what they need. This was one of the toughest decisions.

[00:04:25] Hector: Super interesting. so. founders and investors talk a lot about, finding product market fit.

[00:04:30] and I think it's really interesting how, you know, we, will have seen lots of different online tutoring platforms, marketplaces, for a long time. And yet you guys have really emerged as, one of the most successful and, done significantly better than the vast majority of other ones.

[00:04:45] how have you. Was it in the early days that you had found product market fit and what, what do you think it was about ghost student that kind of set you apart from the other platforms?

[00:04:56] Felix: I fully agree with you. I mean, if you look into the space on a, on [00:05:00] a global level, there really not that many players around it who really crack the model and scale it up.

[00:05:05] I think. One of the key things that differentiate us is definitely this execution obsession. We have built a great team around in the last. 2 3, 4 years that is executing on our strategy extremely well. You need to have right execution, a good ideas, nothing without the right execution. And then this pivot, this shift from the student to the parent, combined with giving them phone calls, being able to sell them also long-term members.

[00:05:38] This definitely helped a lot in, uh, building a nice business case around it. And then the third part is investors like to invest in companies that have a big addressable market, but often education companies only operate on a local level. So we said, we need to grow quickly into other countries. To [00:06:00] increase also the addressable market in which we operate, which allow us to raise even more money at even a much higher evaluations.

[00:06:07] So growing quickly into other countries and making the proof that our business model can also work elsewhere was also one of the big and differentiating, decisions we took compared to other.

[00:06:18] Hector: when you say operation of obsession, what do you mean by that? And how do you build a culture within a company of operational obsession?

[00:06:27] Felix: I mean, first and foremost, you need to hire people where you can trust that they can work a hundred percent hands-on if you, for example, hire your VP of sales or you hire like a head of marketing and sales, the expectation of that person is to be hands-on and spilled out the processes from. You cannot expect to hire such a person that is then just wanting to become a manager and finding other people who do that job.

[00:06:53] So finding people in this building up phase in this early phase who are really like hands on, we use [00:07:00] HubSpot for example, right? go into HubSpot, build out the processes, try them out be obsessed with testing. What works best. This is a very concrete example, but what you need for your company to be.

[00:07:12] James: And it sounds like you basically were the first ed tech company to really master network effects, which means that once you've cracked, that fundraising becomes easier because that money is going towards scaling and you've been involved. If you will, you've raised a couple of what we would describe as mega rounds, including from people at 10 cents and SoftBank.

[00:07:35] What do you think was the most compelling part of your kind of pitch as go students? And what would be your number one bit of advice to founders that are fundraising?

[00:07:46] Felix: So I remember when we started the company that was early 2016, over the course of three and a half years, we did. Really any revenue, but we were depending on VC money and external [00:08:00] money, because, because of the testing, because trying out different things.

[00:08:03] So when we did fundraising back then it was all about the vision. It was all about the people that founded the company and the personal story you have to tell later on when we started with our business model and we scaled it up, This was only one part of it, right. It always starts with the story.

[00:08:20] Why do you build that company? What's your vision? Do you really want to build like the largest education company in the world combined with data proof points? What is the traction that you have built so far? What are the unit economics? What is the addressable market? Why are you doing. Than other competitors from a technological perspective.

[00:08:40] So then you had this like combination of personal story, plus undermine it with the right data. This helped us in raising these, these mega rounds.

[00:08:50] Hector: And you've talked a bit about the business model and clearly you experimented quite a lot with that. over the years, maybe it'd be worth just telling the listeners, what that business model is [00:09:00] for you guys, how it works, how people interact with the platform and who pays.

[00:09:04] Felix: Yeah. So the core business model we have today that makes most of our revenue is we connect one child in the age of six to 19 or 20 with one world class teacher in a one-on-one life, online and viral. So we basically put them into a zoom call and the platform we have developed monitors, everything that happens before the lesson, during the lesson and after the lesson, we really take you by the hand and support you long-term and we sell that service directly to the parents.

[00:09:39] So the parents are the one who signed. We give them a phone call, try to understand what the child needs. And then after they try it out for free, we sell them, let's say a one year membership. That includes eight lessons per month. And then part of the money as a commission goes to us. And the other part of the money goes directly to the teacher

[00:09:58] James: and [00:10:00] security and data protection.

[00:10:02] And it's like, that must be really, really important to you guys. So, how do you go about a topic like that internally, which is so important. And do you create like a specific team around that, kind of part of the product? How do you look at such a core component? Like.

[00:10:21] Felix: actually we have two angles to that.

[00:10:22] We have one, let's call it the human security component, which means we want to make sure that the kids can operate in a safe environment, which basically means we need to make sure we need to make a hundred percent sure that the teachers that we allow to go into the platform, that they are strong and that we can try.

[00:10:41] So we have basically created a three-step application process to ensure their quality, their pedagogical skills, and to do like a proper background check in the UK. For example, we do a DBS check with every teacher that is applying to our platform. And overall [00:11:00] we accept, in the UK around 4% only of all applications.

[00:11:04] to make sure that the kids can feel safe with the teaching that they have. And then there's like this technical safety component to make sure that we can operate GDPR compliant and that we can fulfill highest security standards on the technical platform for that we hire The best engineer.

[00:11:23] So we try to hire the best engineers. we have, create a two external hops as well. We have, developed one hap in Sophia and Bulgaria. We have developed another hub in Moscow, in Russia. We also hire engineers completely remotely all over the world. So build out the best engineering team that you can find to make sure that you don't do mistakes there.

[00:11:45] Hector: what do you think you need to build to stay ahead of the competition and, continue to offer real value to the students and to the parents.

[00:11:54] Felix: So several things around that first and foremost, your product, the [00:12:00] platform that you have developed has to be world-class.

[00:12:04] So the level of convenience always has to be the highest among any other comparable services that you can find, whether this is finding a teacher, offline, finding a teacher on a traditional marketplace, finding a teacher by other sources. So the convenience lever has to be the highest one second thing in education.

[00:12:26] It's. Trust quality and results. So you need to be obsessed with the recent. That you want to generate for the children and for the teachers. So you need to make sure that when your child uses go student, that you can be sure that the performance and the foundation is improving rapidly over the course of the next months and is improving faster than on any other platform.

[00:12:53] Let's take an example of, Cambridge university, Oxford university, they build up a reputation over. [00:13:00] The last decades and this makes it so difficult to replicate that university. You cannot just put a university next to them and say like, this is now the new Oxford, the new Cambridge. And they have built up that reputation, which makes them very defensible.

[00:13:14] And then the, third thing is, affordability. Education is something that has not been innovated a lot in the last decades, which also means that the prices for good education services have increased. So we need to drive more innovation here. We need to try to build out an ecosystem to give more value to the customers, the parents, the teachers, and therefore lower the prices.

[00:13:39] Hector: I think it's really interesting with, companies that, you know, they build a product, they get some users in your case, you experienced huge growth. but you know, on this topic of kind of iterating and improving the product, how do you manage from a product and UX perspective?

[00:13:54] When you find a new way a UX change to make the experience better for customers, [00:14:00] how do you build that into the platform without kind of alienating or confusing existing customers? And do you have to do it very incrementally or do you have to give people tutorials on the new way that the platform works?

[00:14:11] So how do you manage that?

[00:14:13] Felix: That's a good question. So what we normally do is we take a sub sample of our customer. Maybe, depending on what we want to test, let's take, for example, customers who have been extremely loyal. So who have been with us already for quite, quite a long time, because they have a higher tolerance of testing because they already know the service.

[00:14:35] They are satisfied with the service. So, they are perfect in trying out a completely new. Or we take a sub sample of people who just recently joined and we tried to optimize, something to make them even more engaged than, later on. So it's a really tricky topic, Taking sub samples of your existing customers, really trying to understand what is it, what you want to test out [00:15:00] then implementing it.

[00:15:01] And then also we do a lot of like, direct cars with our customers and teachers. So we really pick up the phone, we call our teachers, we try to ask them on the experience. We try to ask the kids and parents, so make your hands dirty grab the phone and, and really try to understand what, they need.

[00:15:18] James: And you're looking for feedback from customers or parents or kids or the teachers, I guess. Cause they're also your, your customers. What tools do you use and are you looking at things like net promoter scores or do you have different KPIs internally? And how do you go about kind of gathering that data and assessing whether a change has worked or improve the experience?

[00:15:41] Felix: Yeah. So in our case, since the product is not only the platform itself, but it's also like the relationship between the teacher and the kids that they build up and they experience individual call that they have. So at the actual kind of learning lessons, Our feedback that we collect is quite [00:16:00] comprehensive.

[00:16:00] So we collect qualitative feedback, meaning we ask also parents and kids after lessons. How did you like the lesson? Do you have some other like notes that you want to share with us? same goes for the teacher. We also have quantitative feedback where we for example, can measure things like the speaking time of the teacher and the kid in such.

[00:16:22] Because when the speaking times are more equal, this lead to higher engagement rates or quantitative metrics. So those can also be things like how often do they meet per week? Are they punctual in the lessons? Is the other grades. So the digital exercises that we assigned to the kids, are they actually improving or are they not improving?

[00:16:43] And if yes, how fast are they improving and why is this teacher then better than the other teacher? So to answer your question, in a nutshell, we do collect comprehensive feedback. Both qualitatively and quantitatively also, including things like [00:17:00] NPS score that you had or a seaside score. And then once we collect all of that feedback that we, that we get, we try to optimize on that and see, okay, what is it that has a high value for us at the moment?

[00:17:13] And then, the fine An action plan on let's say features. We want to implement to improve that value or improve.

[00:17:23] Hector: Just to zoom out a little bit from the kind of operation of the business and out to the kind of wider, wider market and your vision. I'm a VC at episode one. and, we, we don't actually look at that much tech because we've struggled to find an angle, a B2B angle, which is what we invest in.

[00:17:38] but for me, you know, healthcare and education to the biggest sectors, biggest spend in most, That are yet to be disrupted in a, massive way. and I think education particularly interesting in that it, there are people coming at it from all different angles and there are people coming at it like you from the, from the B2C angle and still no [00:18:00] one seems to have found a great way to.

[00:18:02] disrupt the sort of school system and education in that regard using tech. I wonder if you have a grand vision for education and how it goes student feeds into that.

[00:18:12] Felix: I mean, the mission statement for us as a company is to build the number one global school. what does that mean?

[00:18:17] Actually, if you think of education and you brought up school, And education can be, especially in the K-12 sector. So education for kids in the age of like six to 1819, you can see these two buckets, you have the morning market. So that is everything that relates to school. And you have the afternoon market, services directly going after the parents and kids for tutoring for test preparation, getting into the right universities, getting into vocational schools.

[00:18:46] I think in order to really revolutionize the education system and to be able to build this number one global school, we started out in the afternoon market offering one specific service. One-on-one online teaching. [00:19:00] And now in the next phase of the company, to let that vision. Become more true. We also need to diversify ourselves and build out an ecosystem of services that provide value also for schools in the morning market to, make the administration easier to make the life of the teacher.

[00:19:22] We just acquired a company that provides school communication. So it allows the teacher to communicate more directly with the parents, providing good content based on the local school curriculum. Increasing our offerings on the afternoon market, because only then when you get this the morning market and afternoon market, when you bring them together, then you can build out as synergies and you can next demise the value that you give to the family.

[00:19:46] So this is, where we want to go.

[00:19:48] Hector: I suppose you get onto the topic of like, government's policy on, on education, will they come a point where, well, maybe you're already that where you are speaking to government about policy, about regulation, about [00:20:00] how private companies like go student can kind of move their education system forward.

[00:20:05] Felix: Yes. I mean, the way I think about it, in the education world, like governments and private companies is a bit like think of the infrastructure of a city or of a country. So you have the government who needs to make sure that the infrastructure, the streets systems, the camel systems, all these things that they work efficiently in a city.

[00:20:26] And then you have private companies. They bring them innovation onto the streets. They build cars, they build bicycles, they build e-school. Does they built, public transport systems. So you have a perfect synergy between the government project and private projects because the private companies, they bring them.

[00:20:44] The innovate on a daily basis, the lower, the price point for the car, for the bicycle, for things that you can use. And this is the mindset we need to start creating in education. It's not either or it's how can the government initiatives [00:21:00] work together and be integrated with the innovation of, hundreds of, really amazing education products out there.

[00:21:07] James: Yeah, it's really fascinating how it kind of has such a big impact across kind of society. So I'd like to learn a little bit more about Felix the founder. So what, if anything, do you think separates you? What gives you an edge as a founder and how do you think about maximizing your performance? And is there anything that you do that you think really kind of helps you to be the best founder you can.

[00:21:32] Felix: I mean, one thing that I have. Always been since, since I'm a kid. I mean, I, I remember I, for example, I started playing chess when I was in kindergarten and, and developed a huge passion for that. And then when I start playing that, then I want to become the best in that field. And I try to practice then really like on a daily basis, and improve myself and with everything that.

[00:21:54] set as a goal to myself. I really try to reach that and to be extremely persistent with [00:22:00] that and stay on track. And I think this is something you definitely need as a founder of any sort of company, or if you, want to achieve something, you, you set goals and then, then you want to reach them.

[00:22:10] And, if you can't reach them by your own, then you build a team, as a team, you can, Follow that. So this is definitely one of the things, that sets us apart. And I mean, especially in education, everybody told us six years ago. Oh my God, how can you be so crazy to build like an education company?

[00:22:25] There's no one else who will manage to build a really large scale company. And I mean, now six years later, I mean, I think we set the right foundation now and all that the next phase comes in we had. Moments also in the, in the first years where we, it was not clear if we can continue like that or not, but we always knew We need to stay ahead. We have this clear vision is a way we just need to find the right way and let's execute.

[00:22:49] James: Determination and resilience then sounds like

[00:22:52] Felix: yes. A hundred percent

[00:22:55] Hector: And you touched on it there, but, from the outside, it, really looks as though go student has [00:23:00] been.

[00:23:00] plain sailing, huge success story with, with no bumps along the road. but I'm sure that isn't the case. And so I'd love to hear, and I'm sure the listeners would as well. were there ever times where you fed for the future of the company, were there problems you had that you thought would be really difficult to overcome fundraising?

[00:23:20] The horror stories? any times where you thought, you know, the company was in danger and you, you were fairing for its future.

[00:23:27] Felix: I mean generally. I'm always a very optimistic person. So even if you're standing kind of already on the cliff, on the, on the edge shortly before you fall down, I, I still think that, there's maybe like a big bird coming and picking me up, um, and prevents me from falling.

[00:23:43] But to give you maybe one more concrete story, we had that. I think around 20 17, 20 18. So it was really like in the phase of the company before finding the business model, it was the face of trying out different models, with the kids that we had on the [00:24:00] platform to monetize. But most of these initiatives kind of fell apart and we were in need of additional money because we had to pay engineers.

[00:24:08] We had to pay some people in the company, but we, didn't do any revenue. So we were a hundred percent depending on external investors. we were looking to raise, it was back then around 500,000 years. And one day before we had the notary signing to put a seal on it. one of the investors kind of caught us and said, oh no, it's, uh, feel too much.

[00:24:30] and they don't want to do it. And we also knew at that time we only had one more month run rate. So if we don't find someone else. And the other investor, there were two investors. The other investors said, okay, if this one investor is not going with us, then we will, we will also don't go. this was a situation not so easy.

[00:24:48] Luckily in, it was really like, Kind of a coincidence in an advanced kind of friend circle, we found than one person who also, she has like a huge [00:25:00] interest for education. And we were able to convince him to step in and like basically under one week and he saved our ass.

[00:25:07] Hector: Awesome story, I guess.

[00:25:08] have you spoken to that investor who pulled out, since becoming a

[00:25:11] Felix: unicorn? Yes, actually they came in then at a later time again, but the, yeah, I was, it was always was, was all a bit, Ricky.

[00:25:18] James: That's great. I mean, it shows, how close it can get to the wire in those situations. When you know, it feels like something has gone against you. How do you personally tend to deal with those situations? is there someone you speak to, or do you go and exercise or like what, what's your process for dealing.

[00:25:41] That maybe that one email or that one phone call that can kind of derail your whole day,

[00:25:46] Felix: to be honest with you. For me, like the closest person, he is definitely my co-founder Krieger. I like to compare, I mean, to a relationship, right? I mean, you have also, when you think of a personal relationship, [00:26:00] it's a roller coaster.

[00:26:01] You have apps, you have downs, which is completely normal. If the person kind of is your sparing partner, you can make it through all the problems and you can make it through all these ups and downs. So this is how I see it. So I'm super thankful here of him to have him on this journey since the beginning.

[00:26:19] And especially in these moments, I think it's important to have like a sparring partner and not, let you forget. and then think of, okay, what are options that we have on the table? And then let's, let's find a solution

[00:26:31] Hector: for sure. A problem shared is a problem heart after

[00:26:35] James: I was gonna ask a little bit about, what's been the hardest part. So, I mean, we've talked about, you know, those moments where fundraising is maybe close to falling through, or, difficult times and going through a co-founder.

[00:26:47] Out of kind of product sales, operations, like what do you think for you and for maybe your full sites and maybe other companies, what do you think is the hardest part of building a unicorn?[00:27:00]

[00:27:00] Felix: I think that most difficult part, at least in our case. I mean, of course everyone, every company is a bit different than the backgrounds of them, but for us it was definitely the product market. So finding the really the right business model that we can execute on, because if you don't have, a working business model with, with some like sustainable unit economics, you can never escape.

[00:27:22] So the phase to get there, that's extremely, extremely tough. And once you get there, once you see, okay, the model, can actually work. you can have like a profitable model, then it's all about scaling. And then it comes into the operational execution part, but really finding this product market fit.

[00:27:42] I have to say, I think it's, one of the key challenges apart from of course finding the right founding team and, and apart to finding the right people from, from, uh,

[00:27:51] Hector: Brilliant. Yeah, it's great advice. and yeah, it's also, you know, the, the hiring, finding the right people to do all of this stuff is, I'm sure difficult.

[00:27:58] did you guys [00:28:00] ever, find a smart way to hire the best people? Or did you find that people were attracted to you through your fundraising journey and, cause I'm interested particularly in the early days when there weren't the obvious signs of success. How did he manage to attract the very best people to join your team?

[00:28:15] Felix: So the very early days, it was a lot of trial and error to be really honest with you because we were extremely, I call it like greenhorns, right. We, we didn't build a big company before that. so we were kind of like first slash second time founders, but, In the early days, you need to share like the vision with the people that you want to attract, because the money is definitely not the case because in other companies they could, make more money.

[00:28:43] But, yeah, it's the stories you need to tell to convince them. I mean, today, actually, this might also be interesting to some of the listeners, but today we actually. A lot of resources internally for headhunting. So we have, by now almost like 20 paper, [00:29:00] full-time doing headhunting internally. to external agencies and for a lot of the positions, let's say above team lead, we do a lot of head hunting.

[00:29:10] So we try to identify companies that are the best ones in certain domains. Let's say you want to hire like a, digital art. for the creative studio apartment, then you look at who are the best companies doing that. Maybe it's like a, it's a movie studio because they have the best kind of creative people there.

[00:29:28] And then you hire the people from that company to join you. Or if you want to hire for. Like an accounting person, what are the like 3, 4, 5 companies that are the best ones in accounting and then optimize for that? So we really leverage on our internal headhunting resources, to make sure that we get nowadays the, best talent into.

[00:29:48] Hector: Yeah, that's a, that's a great trick. And it's exactly what we, and the listeners love to hear those, those little insider tricks. so, it's been absolutely fantastic hearing all of your insight and, and lots of [00:30:00] great stuff. Good to hear your story. but now we will move on to the dinner party guests game, and we always ask our guests, if they had a, business dinner, business lunch, who are the three people that you would like to invite to that?

[00:30:13] Felix: I mean, in general, I think for Dina, it's always good to have a family dinner to get outside the business world, maybe 5 an hour or so, but, from a business perspective, I mean, some people that come to my mind, two people I actually not alive anymore. One person is called Richard Feynman.

[00:30:29] he was a great physicist, uh, in the 20th century, and, um, a great academic person. And he was also like a person who created like an obsession and passion around like teaching. Complex physics in a very easy way. especially in the, in the field in which we operate education and teaching the quality of education depends on the quality of the.

[00:30:52] And someone like Richard fame and he was able to influence a thing, thousands of people globally because of his teaching abilities to also go into that [00:31:00] domain. So this thing would be a really great sparing partner for an evening. And the other one also coming more from the academic world is called John

[00:31:09] He was like in general, like a universal genius. One of, probably the last ones, in the 20th century who developed. Basically breaking resides in, in, all different domains in engineering and game theory biology. So talking to him in an evening, how he builds the bridges across industries would be super interesting.

[00:31:28] Last one, Tim cook from EPR, how it is to run the largest company in the world. I think that must also be like very interesting, conversation with him.

[00:31:37] Hector: And it's going to be a great, dinner. I think the educators are actually particularly interesting, cause I suppose, you know, you educate a hundred people, make them those people that you're teaching, graded their fields.

[00:31:49] And there's a sort of multiplier effect because they're then going to go off and do great things who their kids are going to go off and do great things to people they teach. You can do great things. really cool. Phoenix has been [00:32:00] awesome. Having you on the show. We've thoroughly enjoyed it, filled with insights. We hope you've enjoyed it too.

[00:32:05] Felix: Absolutely. Thanks a lot guys.

[00:32:08] James: Thanks Felix.

[00:32:09] Felix: Thank you. Bye.

[00:32:11] James: That's it for this week. I hope you were able to take away many learnings from this episode. Thankfully, we have plenty, more amazing guests and insightful conversations coming your way. Every week, every Wednesday. Be sure to subscribe to riding unicorns on apple, Spotify, or wherever else you get your podcasts. Thank you again for listening. If you're interested in supporting the show.

[00:32:32] Don't forget to follow us on Twitter at riding unicorns underscore And follow us on LinkedIn as well by searching riding unicorns. See you next time.